Carrying Defensive Firearms while Drinking?
Grant CunninghamDescription
Should carrying a firearm and drinking alcohol be 100% mutually exclusive? Rob Pincus and PDN Contributor Grant Cunningham approach this topic from a few different perspectives, including what common sense tells us to do and what state and local laws permit or forbid. An analogy is made between drinking while driving and drinking while carrying a firearm.
Grant. I know that we've discussed your, your love of fine scotches known to have a cider or two every now and then. How do we deal with the question of preparation for personal defense when we're drinking alcohol? Oh, that's it, you know that's a good one. Historically in the training world we've always taken the idea that of course we would never touch alcohol and handle a gun at any time. In fact, in most training venues, we say when the alcohol comes out, the gun comes out. But we all know that we'd go out to dinner and maybe have a drink with it. You know sometimes go out to a bar. We sometimes go to places where we're not drinking but other people are drinking and it does become an issue. I think it's incumbent upon the person who's carrying the gun to first of all know his or her own limitations. That is incredibly important, and when it comes to alcohol unfortunately, too many of us really don't. And so it's incumbent upon the person with the gun to first of all know their limitations and stay within them. It's very much like the person who's going to be the designated driver. If you're the gun carry. You kinda need to be the designated gun carrier. It's important to understand that of course obeying the laws. In some States, you can't go into a bar or a Tavern with a gun. Now in my state in Oregon, state of Oregon, we can it's not illegal, but it may be stupid. Here in the state of Washington where we are today. It is in fact illegal to do. So, you of course have to know the laws. Making sure that the people around you don't get silly. That's a big part of it. Because we know a lot of interpersonal conflict comes as a result of inebriation of people doing things they probably shouldn't be doing. Keeping a handle on that if they're your guests, you should probably be responsible for them and guide them so that they don't get to the point where they might do something stupid or might do something dangerous. Yeah, I agree. It's definitely a thing that has to be considered. I don't think we can just throw a label. And if we were gonna throw a label on it the label has to be, if there's alcohol around the guns get put away, as you said and if you're going out to drink, don't carry a gun. And that is 99% any time my policy and has been for a long time. I am perfectly capable of defending myself under a lot of circumstances without a firearm. And if I choose to drink, I'd rather do that without the burden and responsibility of being armed at that time. But as you said, there are some places usually it's illegal and there are some places where it's completely legal. And in fact, I was shocked this year to find out that in Indiana, you can legally open carry in a bar while drinking and saw someone doing it and was astounded that they were making that personal choice. And that setting that kind of representation for the gun community. But aside from the politics of it I think common sense has to prevail. And I like what you said about comparing it to drinking and driving. I think that's a great place to start. If you wouldn't drive a car you certainly shouldn't be carrying a firearm. I agree.
So if you are at home, you have a couple of beers after work. Then a home invasion scenario presents itself. What do you do? Do you defend yourself A. with a gun; B. with another kind of weapon; C. your fists? Also a little off topic. How do many, concealed carry where ever they go. I mean they brag about being licensed and carrying all day(EDC)? And what if you encounter the sign, no firearms allowed on premises? Thanks. Troy Lawson
There are two considerations. The moral one, which is "should I carry a gun and drink?" and the legal one, which is "can I carry a gun under these circumstances?" In my home state of MD, it is legal to carry (assuming you have a permit) a handgun in a bar, in a restaurant, and it appears, while drinking. It is illegal to carry while "under the influence", whatever that means. There is no legal limit like there is for driving. I carry all the time, and I use "would I drive" as my criteria. I end up the designated driver most of the time because of this. In FL, where I own a second home, it is not legal to carry in a bar, or in the bar area of a restaurant. Interestingly, it is not legal to hold a firearm in your hand if you are intoxicated, unless you are doing so to defend yourself.
A few years back, here in Indiana, a patron in a bar shot and killed an armed man attempting to rob the bar. They didn't even press charges.
While I appreciate these videos, would you please record them somewhere besides on a live range? The gunfire in the background is extremely distracting.
I agree, there's nothing wrong with having a couple of drinks while armed, just because one chooses to drink doesn't negate their right to self-defense. I'm not advocating drinking to excess, being falling down drunk while armed, but a few of drinks over the course of an evening shouldn't be an issue (and is a personal choice) and should you have to use your defensive weapon, a clean shoot is a clean shoot (sober or otherwise) and if charges are filed a gun hating prosecutor is Always going to use what ever he can to try and win their case against you good shoot or not As Rob mentioned some states "allow" you to drink (outside your own home) as long as you aren't intoxicated (as defined by the states allowable bac level) others won't allow you to carry into places that primarily make their money in alcohol sales, others into places that sell alcohol (for on premise consumption) at all.
I think it comes down to the individual, and it should be left up to them. Of course the advice is always going to be "don't drink and carry" but making a blanket rule out of it isn't a good idea. What better place to mug someone than outside the bar after all. As with everything else, it comes down to being the individual's responsibility to know whether they'll handle themselves well enough while and after drinking to handle a firearm or not, with the added responsibility of knowing when they need to ask a friend who carries to leave it behind, slow down, or let you take the firearm to the car for them.
Next time you hold a discussion with someone please don't conduct it at the shooting range with somebody practicing behind you. Very distracting and annoying. Thank you.
Not sure there are many out there that can hold their liquor well enough. And drunk means they can't hit what they are shooting at. I am sure there are some capable, but the rule of thumb to me is it is NOT a good idea
I don't believe a drunk ought to be carrying a gun any more than I believe that a drunk ought to be driving. Now in Texas, the law prohibits licensed concealed carry by a person who is "intoxicated" . . . but the carry law doesn't explicitly DEFINE what constitutes intoxication. The general presumption is that a blood alcohol content of 0.08% would be considered intoxication - the same as when driving - but there's no case law I'm aware of that establishes that. (Do YOU want to be the test case?) Things are further complicated by the fact that drivers HAVE been convicted of DUI with LESS than 0.08% BAC. So perhaps an otherwise legally armed citizen could be as well. (Again, test case volunteer, anyone?) Bars? Texas law prohibits carry in an establishment that derives 51% of its sales from alcohol for on-premises consumption, so if you're carrying in a bar at all, you're violating the law. On the other hand, one further consideration: as far as I can tell, there is no "implied consent" provision in Texas carry law to submit to a breathalyzer, blood draw, or field sobriety test the way there is for driving a motor vehicle. So unless there's video of the subject falling down drunk, proving someone was intoxicated when carrying (or after using!) a defensive firearm would take some real effort by LEOs responding to an incident. Personally, I deal with this whole issue by staying sober when carrying.
While I enjoyed the video I didn't enjoy trying to listen over gunfire. The topic was interesting but if this is how all the videos are I wouldn't spend anything more for a premium one.